There has been no shortage of controversy as gay people assume increased roles as parents and married couples in our society, but almost nowhere has this conflict been more intense than in the church. Many religious leaders have condemned homosexuality, calling it a sin or even an abomination, but for millions of gay people around the world, there is nothing inherently sinful about their sexual preferences.
Many say you can be born gay. Several Christians I know reply that God makes no mistakes, ergo, you cannot be born gay. The topic is volatile and hard to diffuse, but it all boils down to one question. IF someone is gay, and they fall in love (and I mean real, heartfelt, true love), isn't that all that matters? Love is love. Gender makes NO difference. Gender, simply stated, is a BIOLOGICAL and HORMONAL difference. Just because two of the same sex are attracted to each other, doesn't mean they're "sinners". they have a separate sexual preference, and we need to tolerate it, just as we must tolerate gender differences themselves, racial differences, and anything that's stereotyped. God doesn't want us to condemn, call out, or over-preach his word. We must spread it peacefully, with soft word and gentle hand. If we cannot learn to accept, or at least tolerate other people, be them homosexual, different race, or different religion, then we are ALL sinning, just because of our close-mindedness. So, those who oppose homosexuality, please, try and see past the gender topic. Examine the feelings, the emotions. It's what God would want.
According to the bible it's also a sin to wear clothing made of different fabrics. How many of you bible sprouters are wearing polyester?
you have a good point there ..
kitchens
any true believer in Christ knows that the most precious gift that he left us with is His Holy Spirit. We also know that Jesus, in all fashions, was simple, to the point and wise....perfect- in a nutshell. To anyone on this post that doesn't believe in Jesus, thinks he was just an ordinary man, or a spiritual teacher....do yourself a favor and start doing your research. Jesus came as God incarnate. The very essence of time was defined by Him (B.C, and A.D). If secularism came in and changed it to B.C.E and removed Him from every aspect of society, that doesn't mean He didn't exist. That just means that you have chosen to worship the world as your God. You choose to believe in the Media, Science..basically in Man's work. No offence, but look at the state of the World as it is.
When you earnestly pray to Him in secret, I can ASSURE you that His Spirit and wise counsel will let you know if your Homosexual acts
are full of love, kindness and compassion towards your partner. Homosexuality is all based on a sick lust. I have heard testimonies from several X-Gay individuals that have shared with me that in the pits of their very souls, they knew that homosexual sex is shameful and wrong. Don't want to take my word for it??? Pray in secret to the Lord Jesus. Share with him all of your inner thoughts regarding your homosexual encounters. He will bring you your answer and provide you with peace that surpasses all human understanding.
People do the worst things in the name of religion! I often see a lot of self-professed "Christians" with their eyes and ears shut, and their mouths wide open. They don't even TRY to understand. They haven't attempted any research, listening, or critical reading.
Gandhi said it well:
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
Relevant film worth a watch:
Lord Save Us From Your Followers
http://www.hulu.com/watch/177536/lord-save-us-from-your-followers
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I posted this comment on another website, so I just figured it fit here too.
The problem that most people who struggle with homosexuality face is a tendency to focus on not committing this sin, in order to be saved from it. Remember that we struggle not against flesh and blood, but against the powers of darkness. It's always a spiritual war first. Physical struggle only comes after, or as a result of spiritual struggle. So the issue is no longer homosexuality, but faith. Do you have faith? If not, are you willing to receive faith? Are you willing to change? Are you willing to be made to change? Remember that God calls all of his children out of this world, but all of his children were born sinners. So, because sin is contrary to the nature of God that means that we are born contrary to God. Sin is not only an action, but in Romans, it is most often referred to as a noun. It's a thing. It has an action. Its action is to drive you away from God. It doesn't stop. Sin's goal is to bring you to death. Death's goal is to kill you, hence the name. Christ defeated sin on the cross and conquered death when He rose from the dead. Nothing could hold Him back from saving the ones He loves.
To really put our sin to death, we must first admit that our sin is ours. All ours. In order to do this, we need only look at Jesus. This is the first practical step everyone needs to make. Study Him. Learn about Him. Find out Who He Is. Here is a Man, who never wrote a book, but is the Author of the best selling Book of all time. The Bible. Your salvation was His idea. What manner of man is this Jesus? He was obedient to the law, and even the fine print of the to the death.
He was even compassionate to the death!
Example: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.”.. "Take care of my mother.".. "I tell you the truth, this day you will be with Me in paradise."
Up until His last breath, Jesus is practicing Grace, Mercy, Forgiveness and Compassion. Wow! Sounds like a great Guy. The Bible (Jesus' letter to you) also says that He lives to make intercession for us. How awesome is that? He actually lives to forgive you and to draw you close to Him.
Ever notice that Jesus never doubted Who He was while here on Earth. Even when he was a kid? Notice that Jesus never got visited by an angel telling Him He was the Son of God. Why is that do you think? Because, it’s an unbelieving generation that seeks after a sign. Jesus was not, and is not, an unbelieving person. He is The Creator. He wrote the law, is The Judge, and just so happens to be your Advocate. He is your representation in the heavenly courts. He is the Biggest, and yet he became the smallest. He was called illegitimate; so that you could be called a legitimate child of God. He was born in a nowhere town, in a weak, tiny, country that was occupied by the world power at that time and a religious environment where women and children were already ill regarded. This was in a time before CNN, Fox News, Radio or human rights watch groups. As a bastard child of a teenage girl and a lowly carpenter, do you think that Jesus might have been mistreated maybe just a little? It was an endless source of accusation by the religious leaders of the day.
Example: "We know who our father is.."
And yet we see that Jesus, by the time He is only 12-years-old already is far wiser, and smarter that the rabbis. How did this happen? Faith. Jesus has always practiced what He preached. His faith is strong. He is faithful, even when we are weak.
I could go on and on, but my point is that once you learn Who Jesus is. Learn to trust Him. Don't be afraid of the Father. Jesus said that if you've seen Him, then you've seen the Father. Jesus, The Son of God, is always of the same mind as The Father. What's crazy is, is that this awesome Person, The All Powerful Creator Himself, performed the greatest miracle of all time when He entered into His fallen creation, and then, became me on the cross. When The Father looked down at His Son, He saw essentially me. My sins. My past. My failures and mistakes. My rebellion. And then, Jesus, the Beloved Son of God, was rejected. At that moment in time, when Jesus cried, "It is FINSISHED!" there was a massive transfer that took place. His life became mine, and my life became his. My sin had been paid for. I was saved. Forever!!!!!
How can you not, but fall on your face and worship. That, my friends, is real love. This brings to mind another point. Did you know that Jesus is Love? He is also Mercy. He is also Grace. He is also Truth, and Justice, etc. etc. If Jesus is Mercy, Love, Grace and Truth and Justice, then these titles, must logically be interchangeable. Love is Jesus. To know Jesus is to know Love. Justice is therefore Love, and Love is Justice. Grace is Just. Mercy is Just and Justice is Mercy. His Judgment is Just. That most mean that His judgment is also an act of Love. How is judgment an act of love, when it is His Judgment that will send many to Hell? Because, my friends, He judged Himself in our place, so that hell could be avoided. So, KNOW that God, aka Jesus is very, very Good.
So, judging all things by the standard that Jesus has put before us, we know that we fail, have failed and will fail, because we are sinners. The great thing about having the title of sinner is that I am one of those whom Christ came to save. He said so. Do you believe Him? I do.
If you're having a hard time grasping what I am saying, here's a question for you. Do you think that David will be in heaven? What about Elijah or Moses? Will they be in heaven? Of course. How do you know this? Well, because the Bible says so. If we are reading the same book, then your Bible will also tell you that all who call on the Name of the LORD will be saved. Have you called on the Name of the LORD? Have you confessed to being a hopeless sinner? Don't hold anything back. It's been paid for. Bring it to the front and put it on the bill. It's already been paid for. Why would you hold it back? Or, in other words, why would you examine any part of your life, attitude before God or man to see of sin you may want to repent of.
The next part is repentance. One problem with sin is that it blinds us. It weakens your faith. How, may you ask? I'll tell you. Because once a particular sin has been committed, you know from the conscience that God gave you, that you have broken the law. I'm not talking about cultural laws; I'm talking about the Laws of God. We look at the deed as a sin, and the devil bears witness to you that yes, it is in deed a sin. He goes before God and accuses you. He even sometimes can get you on the witness stand to testify against yourself. You, even declare yourself guilty before God and argue against a case for Mercy! Sometimes people have become suicidal because they were convinced that their sins were unforgivable, and that the world was better off without them. This is the job of sin. Sin's job is to separate us from a God who is by His very nature Love, Mercy, Justice, Grace aka The Man, Jesus Christ. We want to get rid of these sins that are keeping us from God. We all want to be loved, so break down the barriers that are keeping you separated from Real Love. Satan likes to tell us that we need to obey the law perfectly; otherwise we will go to hell. But Satan, remember, uses the Bible too. However, he skillfully only tells you half of the story. Your sin (both noun and verb) are paid for. No longer are you a slave to sin, but a slave to righteousness. Being a slave means that you are owned. Well, that means that before Jesus paid that price, nothing you could do could get you to heaven, now nothing you can do can get you to hell, except one thing, which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. (Stop and breath, it's okay. Keep reading) Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is essentially denying Jesus' divinity and payment for your sin. Guess what this means. You're okay. This gives us freedom to lovingly, joyfully, passionately grow closer and closer to Jesus. He's the One person that you can never grow tired or board with.
How can we be certain that someone is saved? Repentance means to be sorry for, and against the condition of sin or the individual sins themselves. We strive not to sin because sin blinds us and keeps us from growing in our relationship with Christ, and also in order that we might be good and consistent witnesses to everyone we encounter. But it is not our good works that qualify us for salvation. It's Jesus' works, and Jesus' Life, and Jesus suffering and dying in our place that qualifies us. It's all about Jesus. Our good works just identify us.
What kind of man would go to an apple tree and expect to find potatoes? If there is a harvest, and we are the workers then one thing that we need to do is inspect the fruit we're harvesting. Well, which is it? Is it an apple, or a potato? Apples go in the bin with the big sign labeled Apples. Our fruits aren't always actions. They are attitudes. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, long-suffering. Your works will come out of your attitude. You're attitude comes from understanding. Understanding comes from faith, and faith comes from hearing the Word of God. But faith, itself is a gift from God. So, ask Him for it. He’ll give it to you. Ask Him for guidance in your repentance. He’ll guide you.
It is not always easy. Especially at the beginning. It can be down right painful. Remember, you are now swimming up stream. You are going against your old sinful nature. But Jesus has made it worth the struggle. I thank God that he came to save the sinners. Because, that’s who I am, or was. My identity is no longer in sin, but in Christ. He is The Redeemer. I have staked the rest of eternity on it. Get excited about the Gospel, because it's the salvation to all who believe. Your works can't get you to heaven; they only make you stand out.
So, since salvation is by the Grace of God, through faith, then that must mean that so are my works. I can only do good works if those works are wrought in me via the Holy Spirit. So, read your Bible. Grow strong in faith in the Grace and Power of God. Flee from sin, because it attempts to divide us. To separate us from our True Love, Who Is Jesus Christ the Son of God. It lies to us. It tells us that God hates us. It tells us that we are hopeless. Why should I worry about paying a bill that has already been paid? Simply pay it forward. Love, Mercy, Compassion, Justice and Truth, aka Jesus has been freely given to us, so we should have no problem freely giving Him to others.
Anyway, I hope that this has been helpful.
QUESTION:
Is homosexuality a sin?
Yes.
Why?
If you don't even believe in God, it's a hard question to answer. I could use the whole, “because the Bible says so,” approach, but I’ve come to realize that in order for you to believe that homosexuality is not a sin, you would have to first deny the infallibility of the Bible. You would have to somehow come up with a reason as to why it no longer applies to us today. So, me using the Bible as a source, doesn’t work with you, because well, you don’t believe what it says anyway. So, you make up your own morality out of, I don’t know, thin air to fit what you like and don’t like. So, since you have no problem with homosexuality, it can’t be wrong. You don’t see why or how it could be. You can’t know why, because you don’t even know the Person behind the commandment. And since you don’t know Him, you can’t understand.
So, if you don’t understand or know the Person behind the commandment, how could you possibly understand the nature of sin, or the fallen nature of man? How can you really understand what happened at the cross on Calvary? How can you understand the significance of the subsequent resurrection that took place? How can you know the joy of knowing? On the other hand, it’s terribly sad for me and others like me that you don’t understand the precarious situation that you, yourself are in right now.
On the other hand, you may believe in God, but may doubt that you are saved because you struggle with homosexuality. Let me help you settle some things in your heart. You're still living on earth, and you are still a sinner. This isn't going to just go away until Jesus returns. So, just be thankful that Jesus really does know what you're going through, and that He died for you. At some point you are really going to have to stop focusing so much on your failures and start focusing on Christ's victory on the cross. Believe that it was your victory. He did it for you.
On the other hand, if you believe in God, but still have no problem with homosexuality, let me ask you a question? If homosexualtiy is not a sin, why repent? What need do we have of repentence if homosexuality isn't a sin? Why repent of anything the Word of God says to repent for? It's the Word of God! If we can just walk all over the statutes and laws of God, then He is not all powerful, and not worthy to be feared or worshipped. The Bible says that all sin is the same, that there is no difference. For all have fallen short. If homosexuality is not as sin as the Word of God says it is, then where does that leave the penalty of sin? What does that mean about the crusifixion? What about Jesus? You are denying the seriousness of this thing called sin when after all, it only cost the Almighty Father the Life of His Son. Where does that leave humility? Where does that leave mercy and compassion?
The main thing has always been that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was crucified on our behalf, conquered death and the grave, and rose from the dead on the third day, ascended into heaven and will one day return to judge the living and the dead.
Okay, that point being made, I would like to remind people to keep that always the main point. Remember, we are no longer under the Law of Moses (the order of Aaron) but now under the Law of Grace (Jesus, our High Priest was from the line of Melchizedek) When the high priest who was challenging Jesus during his rigged trial tore his own cloths (which was against the law for the high priest to do) he was unwittingly signaling the end of the law of Moses. The Law of Grace through faith had come.
We cannot begin to imagine how awesome this is for us, because Jesus fulfilled the Law on our behalf. Jesus, Himself could not have been gay, because that would have broken the law and nulified his sacrifice for us on the cross. It wouldn't have mattered if he had died for me, but was Himself a sinner. My sins, including my sexual past, present and future, would still be on my record.
According to the Bible, homosexuality is on the same level as adultery, murder, idolatry, rage and others. They are all sins. We can not pick and choose. Also, you can’t choose NOT to sin. According to the Bible, we are all sinners. We all brake the Law and it’s impossible for us not to. We’re sinners. But it doesn’t excuse sin. What a pickle we have found ourselves in. The wages for sin is death; I’m a sinner, so according the Bible, I have to be put to death? That totally sucks, right? But the Good News, aka the Gospel, is that Jesus paid the price for all of our sins (including homosexuality) on the cross, so now we are free from them. They no longer will count against us when we stand before God. For we are covered in the blood of Christ. His works, His life and His death are all to our benefit. Our lives, our evil deeds were put on Him at the cross, so we no longer need to fear God’s wrath.
Another good thing is, is that God’s love and mercy for the people in the world are far greater than our knowledge of Him. We have that to be thankful for. So, if you really want to know weather or not homosexuality is a sin, I think that you need to first study the Man behind the commandment. Find out for yourselves. Seek after Him.
Seek and ye shall find. Knock, and the door shall be opened unto you.
God’s wrath is for all of those who have for some reason or another, decided that they would like to stand before the Judge (Jesus) on their own merits. They all wanted to be their own lawyer and rejected to Public Defender Who Is the Judge, the Jury and, oh yeah, by the way, God.
How He is going to judge you, I don’t know. But I do know that if you don’t have Jesus standing at your side of the court room waiting to defend you, you’re totally screwed.
Our hope is in His Love for us. His Grace is sufficient. Remember, the Christians bar of soap:
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten So, that whoever believes in Him, shall not perish, have everlasting life.
Faith is another way of saying, believe. Have faith. Believe it. Believe that God loves you. That He will redeem you. You have been redeemed. Believe Him and take your Bible seriousely. Read it. Don't be afraid. The message is all about Love.
well put Derek. Anyone who doesn't trust that Jesus is Lord and Saviour is truly a lost soul. It really is a shame that Homosexuals actually have convinced themselves that their lifestyle is normal, healthy and bascially a way of life. I have yet to encounter a homosexual that doesn't experience a laundry list of dysfunctional behaviours. Of course sin in general with anyone (regardless of being a homosexual or not) creates dysfunction. My observation of any homosexual that I've actually known on a personal level and have engaged in conversation has been dysfunctional. It has ALWAYS left a very bad feeling in my soul.
What can I say? Pray for them to see the Truth.
This is always a perplexing and enticing question for some reason. Homosexuality is simply defined as a tendency to be attracted toward others of the same sex. A physical desire for the same sex. I have yet to find a legitimate answer that describes this as a sin. It has been proven (repeatedly) to be an inherent trait - in simpler terms "present at birth." It seems odd to label this desire as a sin.
BUT that label is completely subjective, meaning it is defined by each individual. Sin ,for me, includes things such as murder, battery, kidnapping, and so on. You get the point. It is a huge stretch to include a human desire in this category. Others may not understand it, may not agree with it and may not like it. But that doesn't make it a sin. It is simply a desire of which some cannot relate. I prefer milk with most every meal. I enjoy Brussels sprouts. I enjoy asparagus. I prefer my steak to be medium rare. I am certain others do not share these preferences but that doesn't make my preferences a sin.
Yes, I trivialize this question because it is just that - trivial. In the scheme it things it has no bearing. I would be interesting to see a forum that questions the sin-ishness of murder, battery, kidnapping and... OK, you get it.
Regardless of your views of homosexuality , if we believe what's written in the Bible, Eve was made from the Rib of Adam. So technically, Adam, when having sex with Eve, was screwing himself. So at the beginning of mankind, their was no female, only Adam. So what does that say about the origin of man? So technically, is Adam both Mother and Father to the first born child ?
So next time you back up the Bible, be sure to find a way to back up how incest is okay, but homosexuality isn't.
First of all, who cares what the Bible says? The Bible also talked about Jonah living inside of a whale. Jesus could have been a homosexual, if he was real. Of course that is an entirely DIFFERENT issue. Anyways, love is love, despite color or race . Anyone who thinks it is somehow wrong needs to dig their head up out from the Bible and realize that every human should have the right to love anyone, without being judged.
Homosexuality can be shown to be immoral even without the use of a Bible. Here is my argument and I'm going to put all religion aside.
1) If homosexuality is moral, then all humans on this earth may be moral and homosexual.
2) If all humans on this earth are homosexual, we will extinct after one generation.
3) Moral attributes that promote human extinction are not moral.
Therefore, homosexuality is immoral.
1) If homosexuality is moral, then all humans on this earth may be moral and homosexual.
This is correct. All humans on earth MAY be moral and homosexual. Not ARE, MAY.
2) If all humans on this earth are homosexual, we will extinct after one generation.
If this were (philosophically speaking) corrected to
2) If all humans on this earth MAY BE homosexual, we will NOT BE extinct after one generation.
which leads to the obvious conclusion
3) Moral attributes that DO NOT promote human extinction ARE moral.
Therefore, homosexuality is moral.
While this sort of argument, when it comes to human behaviour, is fraught with pitfalls, it would be better if the person arguing it would at least be consistent throughout their argument.
God created man and women uniquely compatible and complimentary, and are alone joined by God in marriage , which Genesis as well as Jesus both specifies. (Gn. 2:18-24; Mt. 19:8) The Bible only condemns - by design and decree, in principle and by precept - and never sanctions homosexual relations wherever it is manifestly dealt with, and the injunctions against it are part of the transcendent and immutable moral law . (Lv. 18:22; Rm. 1:26,27)
Pro-homosexual polemics, in all their prolixity, are spurious, and ultimately require negating the authority of the Bible, or the use of a hermeneutic which would negate any moral law.
An extensive examination and refutation of such attempts can be seen here: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Homosex_versus_the_Bible.html
However, there is yet room at the cross for all who will turn to Christ, wanting Him over sin, and believe in Him with all their heart, as some of the first Christians were former homosexuals , etc. (1Cor. 6:9-11)
To God be the glory, for so great salvation, by the great God and our savior Jesus Christ. (Titus 2:13)
Let's cut to the chase here. The word sin is used more than 450 times in the Bible and not one time is it used in conjunction with anything that can be construed to be about same sex relations. If we look solely at the New Testament, we see that Christ was very outspoken about interpersonal relations such as divorce , but not one word about homosexuality . Are we to suppose He "forgot" to mention it? Not even one gospel mentions it. The closet we have are letters that Paul (not Christ) wrote complaining not about homosexuality but about various groups adhering to the old religion and not to God. Even in these cases, Paul is quick to tell us that there are HIS opinions. So what do we use to judge what is and is not a sin? It would seem that homosexuality as a sin is merely a man made concept such as people from different races marrying. There is nothing else to support the idea. In the case of homosexuality, it seems that is is called a "sin" when people have no other reason for disliking it other than personal issues.
As a christian,For sin shall not have dominion over you:for ye are not under the law , but under grace.Romans 6-14 Jesus Loves You!
Homosexuality is a sin if your faith deems it a sin. But the word to pay note to here is "your". Just as you would not want to live in a world based on the faith of others, these others should not have to live in a world that is based on your personal faith. It is your choice to live in an environment that is insular but beyond your personal space the world belongs to us all.
Sodomy is one of the sickest sins of them all and it's preponderous in the gay community is indefensible. It is unhealthy and painful. Of course gay sex is a sin, the Bible is very, very explicit on this point. The apologists who say otherwise don't have a clue about Christianity. When will this country wake up to the terrible influence homosexuality has had on American culture?
“Sodomy is one of the sickest sins of them all and it's preponderous in the gay community is indefensible.”
So Sodomy, as an action between two consenting adults, beats out…
Rape
Incest
Spousal abuse
Child abuse
Torture
Murder motivated by greed
Murder motivated by hate
Genocide
Adultery
Theft
“It is unhealthy and painful.”
While it may not be my ‘cup of tea’ I would have to say that many homosexuals disagree with you on the hurting point.
If we are honest, the answer to this question depends on who you ask. As a background, I am a gay man and I have a degree in comparative religion . While I don't claim to be an expert, this is nevertheless a question that I have pondered a great deal on. Let me try to explain what I mean.
I know of no biblical reason to believe that homosexuality , per se, is a sin. Leviticus 18 and 20 talk about "lying with man as one lies with a woman." Taking this verse at its plain meaning it condemns only actions, not feelings, and many theologians would argue that it condemns a very specific action: anal intercourse. It could be argued that other forms of sex between men are not, from a biblical standpoint, prohibited. Further, one must acknowledge that this verse (in its plain sense) says absolutely nothing about lesbianism. In fact, in the Talmud, the Rabbis gave the death penalty for male-male intercourse and only lashings for female-female intercourse. The reason for the difference is that female-female intercourse is not specifically prohibited by the Torah, but rather prohibited by the Rabbis as a way of "building a fence around the Torah".
There are other understandings of the Leviticus text, however. I have heard theologians discuss the use of the word "Toevah" which is usually translated into English as "abomination". According to these theologians, when this word is used it is always used in reference to ritual. For example, eating pork is an abomination, not because it is morally wrong, but rather because it is associated with pagan cult worship and the Israelites are commanded not to engage in those practices. I believe there is some support for this in reference to the prohibition on male-male intercourse. Leviticus 18:3, in introducing the rules on sexual relations states: "You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices." (NIV)
In Rabbinic Judaism there is another concept that can be drawn on in the case of homosexuality. While Rabbinic Judaism agrees that the law is binding, there is a proviso: if a person if incapable of following the rule, he or she is not responsible for the transgression. This may be of little comfort to LGBT people, but this has allowed some Orthodox Jewish authorities to argue that LGBT people are committing a sin, but are not responsible for that transgression.
LGBT people and our allies often argue that if something is inherent, as we believe sexual orientation and gender identity to be, then it is morally neutral. There cannot be anything sinful about something over which we have no control of.
There is an even greater overriding principle in Reform Judaism that all people are born "b'tzelem elohim" (translated in the divine image) and are entitled to equal dignity and worth as a result. At the very least this concept should encourage the religious to re-think their approach with LGBT people.
If Homosexuality is a sin, then I guess, all your college years, with frat parties were sins too. And that girl you used to teast in high school . That was a sin too. And every curse word that slips your mouth-- yep, we've all said em'. If its against your religion , you need to take a step back, just to see what all you've sinned about. Plus, shouldn't you love whoever you want to love? Yep... you should.
It is dangerous to argue that we as humans know God's intent. To simply state "God's original intent is.." is simply an opinion, not a fact. These statements have been used throughout history, but are based more in traditions than in factual evidence. Several opinions about "God's intent" have shown to be false.
At one time people believed that God did not create all races equal and that slavery is acceptable. This is very easy to be supported Biblically, for there is a consistent opinion throughout scripture that slaves must submit to their master, and the Bible states "slaves are property." Nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned. If you believe owning another person as property is wrong, you will not be able to support that Biblically. It was believed that women were not created equal to men and women have a lower mental capacity than men; women must submit to men. People argued God separated the races for a reason and therefore races should not intermarry. There are Bible verses that, when taken literally, support all of these statements.
The churched condemned Galileo as a heretic because he said the earth revolved around the sun. Their understanding was that God created the earth and put humans on it. Therefore, the earth must be the center of the universe. Many well respected religious such as John Calvin and Martin Luther quoted scripture against Galileo. They could not get past their understanding of God's Intent.
We cannot know God's original intent and therefore cannot use this as an argument.
"Because God says so" is not an acceptable answer on its own, for if homosexuality really is immoral then there should be a a logical explanation to support it. God would not forbid something without reason. The ill effects of homosexuality should be observable in society.
Most respectable scientific organizations that have done research on homosexuality have concluded:
1) Homosexuals are just as stable, healthy, and functional as heterosexuals.
2) People do not choose their sexual orientation.
3) Homosexuals desire the same things from their relationships as heterosexuals (companionship, love, raise families); they are not simply perverse and sex driven.
4) Attempting to change sexual orientation is usually ineffectual and can be psychologically damaging.
List of Health Organizations that analyzed the research and issued policies in support of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people: American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy, American Counseling Association, American Medical Association, National Association of Social Workers, Child Welfare League of America, American Academy of Family Physicians, North American Council on Adoptable Children, American School Counselor Association, American Psychoanalytic Association, National Association of School Psychologists, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Bar Association.
Scientific evidence is hard to refute, but many still try. Some argue that their research is effected by liberal bias . This is complete fallacy. These organizations are national groups that represents people from a diverse range of political, religious, and racial backgrounds. These organizations do research on many topics out sexual orientations and have no invested interest in supporting homosexuals .
It isn't popular to go against the so called "politically correct" agenda that seems to be sweeping the world, but a spade is still a spade. God's very own book states clearly that homosexuality is an abomination. You don't have to like it, you don't have to adhere to it, but don't pretend it isn't there. It's a sin just as much as adultry, murder , stealing, bearing false witness, or any other of the countless disgusting things we do. Before they start to change the Bible, they should realize there are some specific verses there that pertain to those who do just that.
And how many shellfish have you eaten in your life?
I don't see anywhere in my comment where I said I haven't sinned, if that's what you mean. But an interesting side point is that I "don't" eat shellfish, but for other reasons. If you're trying to say that the old testiment is mute, that fails, as I believe the 10 commandments are in there? Something about not murdering and the like..I think that would still be in effect.
I am old testament as anything. So that I still go with. I just wonder how it still applies that Christians can debate what constitutes sin, what the ramifications of that are, etc. when sin, to you guys, is like oxygen. Everyone has it, everyone has it in equal amounts, and no one is any better than anyone else because everyone breathes. A thief is the equivalent of a murderer, a homosexual is the equivalent of a married guy who thinks some other lady is quite attractive. Sin is sin, consummated or unconsummated, as the case may be.
As a Christian I want to tell you that Jesus couldn't have said it any better!
If, on a supernatural level, lust of any sort counts the same consummated or unconsummated, why not just go ahead and consummate. You can't get in any worse trouble, and if it makes you happy..
Thinking it is one sin, doing it is a second sin. Is thinking about murdering someone just as bad as actually murdering him?
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away! It is better to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into hell. 30 If your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away! It is better to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into hell
I would have to assume that yes. If all sins are equal, adultery is equal to murder . And if thinking about adultery is the equivalent of performing adultery, than thinking about murder is the equivalent of performing murder.
A lot of Christians think of sin as this grocery list of don'ts. It's not that simple. Sin is a walking away from God.It doesn't matter if you commit adultery or murder , in either case you are walking away from God. Now, If you look at a woman with lust, you are walking away from God. If you have sex with this woman you are continuing to walk even farther away from God.
that there does in fact exist a heirarchy of sins?
Read it again. I didn't say that at all. I said thinking about a sin and actually doing it are two different equal sins. Two sins are worse then one sin.
I understand. Two sins, but two sins of equal gravity--as all sin is equal to all other sin.
Once again, though, it seems somewhat arbitrary to block off homosexual intercourse. It's not that it's inherently more sinful than regular intercourse, it's just that it's slightly less sinful than it's heterosexual counterpart. If each act of heterosexual intercourse (that's not procreative) is as bad as each act of homosexual intercourse, it seems somewhat confusing to rail so strongly against one and not the other.
The other possibility is that these guys just find it disgusting--as Chief up there admitted--and that's affecting their decisionmaking.
There is nothing in the teachings of Jesus that would make gay sins any different then any other sin. You had it right in the beginning. We all breath sin and all sin is equal. Jesus also taught that it is a sin to call a man a fool.
Well, I sin a bunch in that case.
Anyways, if we're basing our morality on supernatural response--which is something that I really don't recommend, by the way--we can't really call anything worse than anything else, nor any PERSON worse than anything else. So homosexuality , sure it's a sin. As is heterosexuality. As is picking up sticks on saturday. When put in that category, it seems sort of worthless to talk about.
A better question would have been, do you worship on Saturday or Sunday?
If we accept what the church has always taught us that God created us in his Image and that God would never creat imperfect humans, than how can Gays be considered sinful as a group? Most scientific and theological scholars have determined that gays don't make choices to be gay but are born with this! I never wanted to be gay-but to have a loving wife and kids and live a life devoid of discrimination and sorrow at times! We are all sinners but if you lead a righteous life and follow the example Jesus set for us by loving an acepting everyone, than we will be in heaven! Jesus Christ never once preached against homosexuals-there is no shred of evidence in the New Testament.
I personally do not believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible
because it has been interpreted so many times over the years and when you do that, we lose certain meanings as a result. The far right has always needed to find scapgoat for their hate-being blacks during the civil rights era, the fight over abortion rights or now attacking and spreading lies and contempt towards gays and lesbian people. We are
making progress but is slow and ever forward despite the huge amount of money and hatred that spews from the so-called religious right and other fanatics! I wonder after they fail trying to convince the American people how wicked and terrible we are, who will they single out for their hatred? Native Americans or maybe the Canadians?
The entire concept of sin is ludicrous. The funniest thing about people that think this way is that they are the pure definition of hypocrite. They take the Bible verbatim, yet they choose what to take verbatim (another discussion if this is a verbatim sin all together) when it benefits but ignore when it doesn't. For example, the concept of casting the first stone, or the concept that only God can decide right and wrong, or the belief that Jesus supposedly hung out with the dregs of society because they had the first chance at heaven. Those who persecute are the most likely candidates for Hell. While I don't believe in any of this malarkey, the concept that something which is not one's choice is a sin is hilarious. Leave homosexuals alone, they are generally nicer and more generous people and closer to the false image we portray of Jesus than any of the finger pointing focus on the family, Southern Baptist morons in this country.
I am a fundamentalist Christian, I take the Bible as it is written. I also have know many gays and don't think homosexually is a sin. Jesus did not judge gays and taught that we should judge anyone. It is disturbing to me that people get turned off Christianity by a few vocal hypocrites.
Homosexuality is NOT a sin; ignorance is. The bible is based on OPINIONS of what is "Wrong" or "Right". The bible is fiction book, in my opinion.
If Jesus didn't condemn Gays why should we? When Jesus healed the centurion's servant the word for servant was pais. Pais denotes a gay relationship. But Jesus didn't condemn the relationship?
Why worry about it? "Sin" is only a concern if you buy into that particular mythology anyway. Besides, any religion 's idea of "immoral" shouldn't necessarily be "illegal". As long as you are harming no innocent person (someone who doesn't deserve to be harmed right now) what you do is no one's business but your own.
To even ask this question requires a worldview where Sin exists. This is not a legal or moral issue, it is a Christian one, and is only valid if your worldview includes the concept of Sin.
You ask is being gay a sin.One sin is not as bad as another sin and we all have sinned.You without sin cast the frist stone.JESUS LOVES US ALL. HE DIED FOR YOU.COME TO JESUS today.COME
The question's legitimate, I suppose, but the answer is obviously no. A sin must be an action, and homosexuality is NOT an action. It's not something you DO, it's something you ARE. It also must be chosen, and sexual orientation is NOT chosen.
However, my major objection comes from your supposed "expert." That as an expert on this topic you chose the insidious hate group "Exodus" to give their proven lies is horrifying. Not ONLY do they promote the hateful lie that it's a "sin" to be gay, blasphemously misusing twisted and out of context scripture as their weapon, but they also promote a far more insidious and dangerous lie..that they can "cure" homosexuality, turn gay people into straight people.
This is not only a PROVEN lie..there is no such thing as a former homosexual..but this lie destroys countless lives. EVERY credible mental health authority confirms that not only can a gay person not EVER turn into a heterosexual, but that it causes tremendous damage to try. You should be aware that of the two founders of this hate group, one is still promoting the lie of being a "former homosexual" even though he's admitted in interviews that he still "struggles with temptation"
In other words, he's still attracted romantically and physically to men.
In other words, he's still homosexual. Being celebate, or even forcing yourself to have sex with women, doesn't change this fact.
On the other hand, the OTHER of the two founders of Exodus now admits the entire thing was a fraud, and is now living as what he ALWAYS really was..a gay man.
Intentionally causing harm to people is a moral outrage. To pretend to be a "Christian" group while doing so is blasphemy of the worst kind, like the KKK pretending to be a "Christian" group. Exodus should be removed from your site, they're no "expert" in anything except promoting bigotry and lies.