People are awesome: Should Abortion be Legal?

The landmark Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade was supposed to settle the question of abortion’s legality once and for all, but the Court’s ruling has instead become a fulcrum of debate. Placed squarely at the intersection of civil rights, health, religion and law, abortion is one of America’s most heated controversies.

There is no justifiable reason to kill an unborn child. Women seem to believe that having a child is a right when in fact it is not a right but rather a priviledge. I came across this article recently and thought I would share it as it offers a good in depth view on the subject http://lifestyles101.hubpages.com/hub/Abortion-Should-it-Be-Legal

No matter how you look at it, killing a baby in its mother womb IS murder in the FIRST DEGREE! NO taxpayer should be paying for murder of innocent babes, they should be funding a program to HELP POOR MOTHERS care for their child, or legally put them up for adoption.

Abortion should not be illegal, but taxpayers should not have to pay for it. If a woman wants an abortion, she should be able to have one but should have to support her right by footing the bill herself!

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is it really that hard? if you are pregnant, you have a child living inside you, whether you didn't ask for it or did.
nothing gives you the right to choose whether it lives or dies. "thou shalt not murder" abortioin is murder. very simply put, if abortion is murder, and obviously murder is wrong. DONT DO IT! and if you believe the lie that whats living, kicking, and breathing in you is NOT alive. then i suggest you take a longer look into what alive exactly means before you kill your child. there is evidence everywhere that proves it is alive.
Did the child choose to be born from a couple of irresponsible children "fooling" around? no! sure, its easy to choose to murder your baby if you have an excuse. but that excuse is a lie.
if you aren't in a stable marriage, then don't have sex. odds are your going to get pregnant. DON'T follow your selfish desires, and create a baby you aren't planning on keeping. it makes me mad to think that they are even thinking of legalizing abortion. thousands of children, who might have had a future, have been murdered. If you are one of those moms that killed your child, repent and you will be forgiven. turn to God and your soul will be saved from the eternal torture of hell. if you are one of the fathers that persuaded an unstable mother to abort/kill their child than you also should repent. so many mothers felt an emptyness after doing such an act, and regretted it soon after.
so DAMN abortion and everything supporting it. IT IS MURDER. if you have any questions, please comment.
i would love to hear your side of the story.

First of all lady technically its not murder because it's not born yet. Another thing what if someone doesn't have the money to have a baby. It should be the persons choice not yours or anybody elses so if you dont want anymore people to have abortions than how about this everybody who has their baby instead of an abortion you have to pay all of the bills and tell me then you wont change your mind a frankly i don't believe in jesus i'm athiest i think whoever tries to use god as an excuse not to have an abortion is a dumbass so maybe you should rethink.Would you like people making decisions for you?

I'm not sure what has happened in your life to cause you to have such issues, but you need to stop and think. If your mom thought the same as you, obviously you would not be here. If two people are "mature" enough to engage in the act that created this child, they should be "mature" enough to realize the consequences that go with it. It's not a free joy ride, there is always a serious possibility that a child will be created. And genius use a dictionary. To abort means to terminate before completion. That means, it has to be in progress, so if the child is not alive, it should not have to be stopped, by abortion. I'm sure you have cost someone a great deal, whether it is money, or emotional pain. Grow up and think before you run your mouth on a subject you obviously know NOTHING about!!! Also, God has nothing to do with this. He's not an excuse not to have an abortion. I believe there's a few laws that suggest you should not murder, because you will probably go to jail. As previously stated, abortion IS MURDER!!!!

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I can not believe I read a comment with someone asking would you save a life if you knew it would grow up to be gay. Rediculous. Of course I would. A life is a life. If it be gay or whatever and yes if they wanted to marry I would give it my blessing. Grow up people. This is life. It happens every day whether you want it to or not.

With medical intervention, babies can survive after 22 weeks. So after 5.5 months life truly begins. I think abortions prior to 22 weeks of pregnancy should remain legal , but after this window the baby is alive and must be legally protected. There is always the problem of determining the age of the unborn baby for unplanned pregnancies, but I am sure doctors can figure it out.

If the mothers life is in danger after the 5.5 month period, the baby can be removed and artificially incubated. Sexual assault and incest victims had 5.5 months to seek medical attention so I do not think this is a good excuse to allow late term abortions. Sexually active women should learn the signs of pregnancy because the "I didn't know I was pregnant" excuse seems ridiculous.

again..just food for thought.."If the fetus you save turns out to be gay will you still fight for it's rights"?

If you are fighting soooo hard for the unborn, the fetus, why would you then work to eliminate it's rights if "it" doesn't come out like you think it should?

if you knew a fetus was gay would you then favor abortion ?

My question to the Pro-lifers who also find themselves in a quandry regarding ssm or gay persons in general.."if the fetus you save turns out to be gay will you still fight for it's rights?" Doubtful, since there are also the same groups who fight to ban same sex couples or LGBT persons from adopting (one of the options you scream about) those wonderful products of the pro creation process you also use as an argument to eliminate rights from a group of american citizens. I DO NOT favor abortion as a means of birth control as so many (esp) young people use it as. However, it is still a womans right to decide what happens to her body. Many of those that make this argument against abortion are the same who are up in arms about more govt restrictions/ regulations and in our lives, bitch about "entitlement" programs but when the think they're on the moral high ground, they'll fight for the govt to be on their side. How can you be pro-life and support war , death penalties, and see the suffering on our streets in America? Fight the good fight AFTER you've addressed solutions for the next generation of society dependant "saves" and
put it in place.

What the debate is really about is do you consider arbortion moral?

.. that babies need to be provided with legal counsel before the decision is made to execute them without a trial . The baby , when it is old enough, should be asked if he desires to continue living.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ

Its rather sad a few radicals and activists have pushed this abortion debate to the national level. It's so sad that these people are encouraging the murder of babies , even amongst teens who should know better not to have sex . Isn't about time Americans take responsibility for their actions? If these women don't want babies, why are they having sex in the first place?

“If these women don't want babies , why are they having sex in the first place?”

Because that is what humans do? People make mistakes and miscalculations

Nobody is more responsible for abortions than the Pope. If the hysterical right weren't just interested in the theater of the issue, they'd admit that the best way to limit the number of abortions was to combine the legalization of abortion with efforts to make effective birth control more available. Anti-abortion doesn't decrease the number of abortion. It simply increases the number of unsafe, illegal abortions. Anyhow, if they were consistent, they'd call for the death penalty for women who have abortions. That's not going to work, so they work instead for my indirect way of killing women since that's what gets them off. Creeps.

until we can define what it means to be alive this is going to be a tough one, but in the meantime those who live by the scalpel will die by the scalpel.

Aren't we all, by true definition, pro-choice ? "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." Choosing to not is a choice, no matter how you look at it. Abortion is a difficult decision, no matter the individual's circumstances or beliefs. Is abortion a legal issue or a personal decision? Should the federal or state governments decide, or should you? We all make choices in life, you are only responsible for your own, it's called accountability.

The title pro choice doesn't make any sense to me. The mother chooses, but does the baby get any say on whether or not they live or die? What if your life was put into the hands of a certain individual, and their choice was to kill you, to protect their "rights" and "privacy". It makes no sense to me that a life that change the world,is taken before it can take its first look at the light of day.

I am for abortion rights, although I believe that men should not really have any say in whether or not abortion is legal or not, because it is never going to affect men, it doesn't really matter if a man wants a woman to have the right to have a abortion or not, the idea is ridiculous to me, its as if your having people in Lichtenstein vote on who the president of the United States should be. It simply doesn't make sense!

Religious dogma is impervious to logical arguments.
To call two cells a person demonstrates this fact quite well I think.
If they really cared about human life they'd be in Darfur doing something about that holocaust.

apparently they are doing something:

http://www.redcross.org.uk/standard.asp?id=70268
http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=9518&tid=032
http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=21754&tid=001

And any two cells are not a person. A zygote is because:

1. "[The zygote], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being."
Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.

2. From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]:
person: noun : a human being

If eggs were chickens wouldn't they sell them by the pound?
Is an acorn an oak tree?

I am not against all abortions. I am against human abortions. I don't care if trees or chickens are aborted by their mothers (wich by the way no animal specie do). The point in this debate is Humanity. Because all our laws place the highest value on human life. Since we know that life does not begin at birth but at conception we must defend every human being from the moment it comes into being. Without life no other rights are available to anyone.

The question isn't whether abortion ought to be legal but rather - In the United States, and indeed throughout the rest of the world, does a human being have the right of self-determination and, at least in the United States, the liberty to exercise that right. This question, of course, was resolved a long time ago in the writing of the U.S. Constitution. It was answered affirmatively in the bill of rights in which the right of self-determination and the liberty to exercise that right is inherent in freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom to bear arms, etc. The intent of those who composed the constitution is quite clear - unquestioned right of self-determination and liberty to exercise the same. None of these rights and freedoms are possible without that basic assumption. If the tribe - and this is in effect how the nation behaves on a regular basis - chooses to interfere with a woman's right to control the functions of her own body, the tribe undermines the basis of all other individual freedoms thus destroying the heart of U.S. law - those principles written into the U.S. Constitution. If a woman's right to self-determination is undermined, so too you undermine freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, economic freedom, right to private property, and on and on. I believe the majority of Americans, particularly those arguing against the legality of abortion, do not fully understand what they are tampering with. They are, in fact, themselves inserting the wedge that will topple their right to ask and decide such questions in their own personal lives. It is but a short step from disallowing the right to choose abortion to legal control over when and if a woman has a child at all. If a woman does not absolutely own her womb, she at some point will be told when she can and cannot have a child, with whom, how many and how often. This sounds extremist, of course, however, this is the very real logical destiny called for by those who would destroy a woman's right to choose. If a woman cannot decide NOT to bear a child, she also cannot decide when she WILL have a child. The tribe reduces a woman to a mere walking womb belonging to the people.

If the tribe refuses to allow a woman to decide to abort a fetus, then the tribe must necessarily take responsibility for that fetus. It necessarily become property of the people thus reducing a fetus/child to a thing for barter. It stands to reason, if you compel tribal decisions on an individual, the tribe is responsible for the consequences of those decisions, NOT the individual. Also, by promoting the fetus to the status of "full human being", you create a situation where you impose slavery on the mother to the fetus - the slavery of one full human being to another full human being. We, as americans, no longer legally support slavery and therefore, to be consistent, must do all that is possible to liberate the mother from slavery to that "full human being" growing inside her. The child MUST be removed and allowed to survive on its own. After all, it's a "full human being", is it not? If it is a crime for an individual to move into the home of another uninvited and forcibly take up residence, it is also a crime for a a fetus allegedly with full rights and liberties to be allowed to reside in a mother unwelcome. The rights of the "fully human" fetus cannot supersede the rights of the mother. If they are equal, the desires of each must be considered equally. The mother does not want the unwelcome guest. If the tribe decides to make decisions for that unwelcome guest, the tribe must necessarily resolve the situation of illegal residence - otherwise the tribe loses all legitimacy in its interference in the decisions of the pregnant woman and her right to decide for herself is restored by default.

If the tribe condones slavery, the tribe has no legitimacy.

I have tried and tried and I can not come to the rationalization that many pro- abortion supporters find so easy - that somehow, a thing that, if left un-aborted, will turn into a human being 100% of the time. (not usually, not almost always, not 99.9999999..% of the time, but EVERY time) can be killed and it somehow isn't murder, or if it is, that it is OK, because it isn't human. How can it not be a human being? This isn't about religion or choice, but about science (the thing that becomes a human, is a human) and basic right and wrong vs. convenience. I don't have to be a woman (I'm not) or a religious nutbag (I'm not) to understand either side of this argument. Why do so many otherwise decent people seem to think it is OK to kill another human? It also sickens me that many of the same folks that are pro-abortion are charter members of PETA, ASPCA, etc. If we cared half us much for each other, as we did for food and companionship, abortion wouldn't be an issue.

Here's a question that my mom's friend brings up every time human rights are brought up.

Is it ethical for someone to demand services of you for free, or to coerce you into a contract that you did not consent to? Of course not! You never consented to the contract!

Imagine the following situation. One day, you wake up and find a human being attached to you via life-support system. If you remove the life-support system, the human being will die. Question: Is it ethical for that human being to inconvenience you without asking for a social contract?

I think you might know where I'm running with this.

And notice that I never asked whether or not it is -moral-. Morality and ethics are two very different things.

1. "Is it ethical for someone to demand services of you for free, or to coerce you into a contract that you did not consent to? Of course not! You never consented to the contract!!

I think it's quite clear that there is a moment when the woman did sign a contract. "by having sex, i hearby accept the possibility that a new life within me will be created and that it will be my responsability to give him life aid until it'll be able to do so by it's own" furthermore the baby did not demand any service, they where graciously given by the mother's womb.

2. "And notice that I never asked whether or not it is -moral-. Morality and ethics are two very different things."

From WordNet (r) 2.0 [wn]:
ethics noun 1: motivation based on ideas of right and wrong [syn: {ethical motive}, {morals}, {MORALITY}]

"I think it's quite clear that there is a moment when the woman did sign a contract. "by having sex, i hearby accept the possibility that a new life within me will be created and that it will be my responsability to give him life aid until it'll be able to do so by it's own" furthermore the baby did not demand any service, they where graciously given by the mother's womb."

So if a woman was raped, she also signed such a contract of her own will?

Furthermore, ethics and morality are far more complicated and confused issues than a dictionary would lead you to believe. I suggest reading the article here: http://www.chiroweb.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=46121 However, that, too, is overly generalized in differentiating ethics from morality.

Rape counts only for less than 1% of total abortions. Rape clearly is an exception.
Why can't we discuss about the main problem and then address the exceptions?

The problem with abortion these days is that it has become simply another method of birth control.
This is the main problem and one everybody should agree with: abortion is not good for women, nor for society . We should fight the basic problem that is unwanted pregnancy . And i am sorry but the pope is right: Condoms only policy does not work: we need a better sexual education . I really believe in the ABC system used in Africa: Abstinence, Be Faithful, Condoms:

Abstinence until you find a partner, better sexual practices and use of birth control methods. As condoms are not 100 % reliable, to advertize that the problem to HIV and unwanted pregnancy is solved using condoms will not be effective.

Wait a second. Do you have any evidence when you say that rape counts for less than 1% of total abortions? I'd like to see those statistics, please.

And do you have any evidence of the claim that abortion is being used as another method of birth control? That's ridiculous. Abortions are far more expensive than condoms and pills.

And condoms are always more effective than unprotected sex. I agree that the solution to HIV and unexpected pregnancies is better sex education, but I don't see how that discredits abortion as a possibility. The best way to treat a broken leg is by not breaking it in the first place, but you can't discount surgery as an option to mend broken legs.

"Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[9]

• Forty-six percent of women who have abortions had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy , 32% had had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex.[9]"

http://www.alanguttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html
The AGI is the research arm of Planned Parenthood, the world's largest abortion provider.

So as you can see 46% of women did not use another contraceptive method while a majority of people using other contraceptive methods report having used them inconsistently. This means that a great majority of people are not using contraceptives or are using them inconsistently. Why? Because there's always abortion available as a solution.

The AGI also reports that 1% had been forced to have sex.

Of course condoms are more effective than unprotected sex. I don't say that better sexual education discredits abortion as a possibility. I just think that if we address the problem at the source then less abortion will follow wich is what we should all agree with. I also think that making abortion illegal is the best solution if we want abortion to end.
In poland for instance since the new 1993 law was written abortions went down from
100 000 aprox to only 340 in 2006. The law exempt the woman from being guilty of any crime and allows abortion when there is rape, if the life or health of the mother is at risk or when the fetus health is incompatible with life.
Your example is not valid because in a broken leg situation surgery has a purpose of healing and cure. In the case of abortion surgery is used to terminate a human life. No other surgery does that.