For most Americans, Islam was a religion that lived on the periphery of their lives, a culture they caught glimpses of in movies and television shows. Then came the tragic events of 9/11, and suddenly the Western world was desperately grasping to understand a religion they knew precious little about. With all the questions swirling around the true nature of Islam, none has been asked more than this: Does Islam promote violence?
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We are just taught to say they don't. Christianity kinda has grown into this non-violent religion in the past hundred years or so, but can anyone say Salem witch hunts, and lest we forget, the Inquisition? The Islamic religion is no different except that they are hundreds of years behind the rest of the world where the rest of the world has found it wiser to give women their rights to exercise and we actually let them come out of the kitchen what, 50 years ago?
Calling the Islamic religion violent is akin to telling them they are like we were a few hundred years ago.
There have been 504 votes, and 62% of those votes indicate that Islam DOES promote violence . It's pretty obvious that Muhammed's life and sayings lead to violence.
If one emulates Jesus, he gives and gives and gives, and when he is struck on the one cheek, he turns the other. So profound were the lessons of Jesus, that whole continents have outlawed slavery, animal sacrifice has nearly been extinguished, and God-given, inalienable rights have been codified into law . Monogamy, women's rights , self -determination, free- speech , tolerance, and worldwide humanitarian efforts flow endlessly from the borders of countries who have embraced christian teachings.
Sadly though, If a man follows Muhammed, he'll enslave his enemies, oppress and humiliate his many wives, molest children , and teach that drinking camel urine is the cure for all illnesses. He'll force his women to cover themselves in a big sack, He'll kill anyone who insults him. He'll kill anyone who questions his god or his prophet. Though he sits on a great sea of oil , his people will live in uncivilized poverty , starve , and die of curable diseases. No money will be given charitably to relieve disaster victims. There deaths will be blamed on their impiety and disbelief of their "prophet". Instead of living and dying to save others, he'll be encouraged to die in the act of killing others.
You have to be living in crazyville to seriously equate Christianity to Islam.
There's 504 votes + %62 says Islam promote violence x It makes it obvious for you that Muhammed's life and saying lead to violence = You are a fool. Congratulations!
Adams was VERY familiar with Islam. If you studied history at all, you would know the history of Ishmael.
"The fundamental doctrine of the Christian religion, is the extirpation of hatred from the human heart. It forbids the exercise of it, even towards enemies. There is no denomination of Christians, which denies or misunderstands this doctrine. All understand it alike—all acknowledge its obligations; and however imperfectly, in the purposes of Divine Providence, its efficacy has been shown in the practice of Christians, it has not been wholly inoperative upon them. Its effect has been upon the manners of nations. It has mitigated the horrors of war—it has softened the features of slavery—it has humanized the intercourse of social life. The unqualified acknowledgement of a duty does not, indeed, suffice to insure its performance. Hatred is yet a passion, but too powerful upon the hearts of Christians. Yet they cannot indulge it, except by the sacrifice of their principles, and the conscious violation of their duties. No state paper from a Christian hand, could, without trampling the precepts of its Lord and Master, have commenced by an open proclamation of hatred to any portion of the human race . The Ottoman lays it down as the foundation of his discourse (Blunt, 29:300, emp. added)." John Quincy Adams
"And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren." God, concerning the fate of Ishmael, Mohammed's ancestor.
It's obvious to 62% of poll takers that Islam promotes violence. If that somehow makes me a fool, I'd like to know how.
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.
The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science , the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome." Winston Churchill.
It makes you fool because 500 votes is not even enough votes for elections of a little town, how could it make a decision about a religion? Plus there's barely any Muslim on this site. So Gregory if a Muslim site would make a voting and 1000 people said "USA is terrorist" would that make USA terrorist? Beside that simple fact which makes you a fool, you don't even know Islam. Nope, Islam doesn't make a woman a man's property. Women has right to divorce if they are unhappy with their marriage. Then you talk about slavery, did you know slavery in Islamic societies doesn't even resemble slavery of Western societies? Did you know there's even many kings who were initially slave? No? I didn't think so.
What we have here is an illiterate muslim apologist who doesn't even know what his own prophet did. Tell ya what, Hasim, you learn the english language, and I'll let you converse with me. Until then, your argument is with history.
Please respond me your foolishness! Please don't let my argument be history! Ahahaha ignorant fool..
"Please respond me your foolishness" is gibberish. Something an illiterate heathen would write.
"Please respond to my foolishness", or maybe, "Please respond to me with your foolishness" are actual sentences in english.
" Please don't let my argument be WITH history"
Ahahaha, ignorant fool! Ellipses (..) at the end of an interjection imply that you are pausing, or skipping over something.
Like I said, when you can be smarter I'll be glad to speak with you. Maybe you could practice speaking english with the camels.
Hahaha poor old Gregory have no knowledge on the subject he was trying to comment so now he picks on my English. Are you an English teacher Gregory? By the way English is one of three languages i know enough to read books, research and speak sufficiently to silence loud mouthed like you. How many languages do you know Gregory?
You've failed so far. Say something intelligent, and I'll acknowledge you for it.
The Most Enduring Legacy Of Nazi Hate by David Stokes
And he had been preparing the hearts and minds of the Muslim world for many years.
Jeffrey Herf, a professor of history at the University of Maryland , has written an eye-opening book about the effectiveness of Nazi ideas in the Middle East during the Second World War called, “Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World.” In it, he describes the Nazi campaign for the minds and hearts of the Arab world in great detail—particularly the Axis radio programs that ran in Arabic around the clock from late 1939 until March of 1945.
These broadcasts spewed venomous anti-Semitism and pushed every demagogic button imaginable. They were also highly effective. In fact, long after the last vestige of Nazi rhetoric faded from consciousness in Europe, the poisonous seeds planted back then are still bearing deadly fruit .
The mind-set that gave way to the Third Reich is very much alive and well in the Muslim world of the Middle East.
When those two senatorial strange-bedfellows offered their visionary resolution in 1944 about a Jewish homeland in Palestine, the “Axis Broadcasts in Arabic” were way ahead of the story. Mr. Herf has accessed a significant cache of transcripts and leaflets produced by the Nazis during the war —materials that have not been adequately examined—until now.
So back in 1944, any hopes a couple of well-intentioned voices in Washington might have had to garner widespread national support for a Jewish homeland in Palestine were dashed by forces largely influenced by the hate-speak of Nazi propagandists. Berlin, broadcasting in Arabic, referred to Taft and Wagner as “criminal American senators ,” while announcing, “a great tragedy is about to be unfolded, a great massacre, another turbulent war is about to start in the Arab countries.”
And in phraseology that sounds eerily familiar to what we still regularly hear from Islamists, the Nazis described the stakes as kill or be killed :
“Arabs and Moslems, sons of the East, this menace threatens your very lives, endangers your beliefs and aims at your wealth. No trace of you will remain. Your doom is sealed. It were better if the earth opened and engulfed everybody; it were better if the skies fell upon us, bringing havoc and destruction; all this, rather than the sun of Islam should set and the Koran perish..Stir up wars and revolutions, stand fast against the aggressors, let your hearts, afire with faith, burst asunder! Advance your armies and drive out the menace.”
Bear in mind that this is a Nazi broadcast to the Arab/ Muslims in Palestine. Of course, the relationship between Hitler and Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti in Jerusalem, is well known and documented (see my article: “Hitler’s Favorite Jihadist”), but the broadcasts from Berlin to Palestine are just now beginning to be examined. And what is being found is further evidence that to refer to Islamists as Nazi or Fascist-like is no smear—or stretch.
The rhetoric broadcasted to the Middle East 70 years ago is still being noised about—and even more pervasively and effectively. Back then, the attitudes it reinforced, complete with distortion, hate and prejudice, caused U.S. officials, from FDR on down, to “go wobbly”—as Margaret Thatcher would say.
It is sadly clear that the most lasting impact of the Nazi propaganda machine is that murderous ideas espoused back then are alive and well in our day and age and still being used to threaten and kill Jews—while nouveau wobblers turn away.
While violent, the Koran and Hadith can be read allegorically just as the Bible can. There are Muslims doing this every day.
Unfortunately, there are also those using Islam to justify random acts of terror and murder . They kill not only 'infidels', but other Muslims whose theology or politics differ from their own. Islam will have to deal with problem internally. Outsiders cannot expel and marginalize these believers.
Until the vast body of Muslims does take action, I am forced to conclude that Islam, at this time, does promote violence . There is simply too much carnage in the name of Allah to believe anything else.
Islam don't promote violence . However, it is Muslims with ulterior motives who promote violence by misusing Islam as a tool to recruit "loss lambs" for their intentions to attack the innocent masses. It is lack of understanding of Islam that made these lambs susceptible to being cheated with promise of heaven.
Having said that, Western ideology, Democracy, Socialism, Capitalism, Religion, as well as other beliefs and doctrines don't promote violence. It's the PEOPLE who do.
If Muslims want to label Western ideology as the source of suppression of their freedom (or the cause of their sufferings), WHY DO MUSLIMS retaliate (or rebuke) when Westerners label Islam as promoting TERRORISM? To me, both are not correct to perceive it this way.
The weakness in the system is however, very obvious. It's so scary that Islam can be misused by criminals as an excuse for their deeds, and these people get away with it and sometimes with cheers from a population (though there is voices within who condemned, though not loud enough). Isn't the situation parallel that of western leaders who misuse Democracy to get what they want? Aren't Democracy being used as excuse sometimes in the past to cause unnecessary confrontations with other countries? Both are weak in the sense that they can be misused!
As conclusion, Islam don't promote violence. However, Islam (and other religion or ideology) is susceptible to be misused as tool to promote VIOLENCE. I hope the population will learn enough in the future to realize that. EDUCATION to me is the best remedy to help these people, so as to prevent them from being led blindly to sacrifice themselves for nothing. I pity these people sometimes, but I pity more on the victims that these people killed or maimed.
Peace
Mohammed is to Islam as Jesus Christ is to Christianity
Mohammed is the perfect example for Muslims to emulate as is Jesus is the perfect example of a Christian. Mohammed used violence to further the Islamic worldview. Jesus never condoned violence, his response was to turn the other cheek and love them. Hence, Islam is violent.
A famous hadith proclaims that "Paradise lies beneath the shades of swords" (al-Bukhari 4:73). Certainly Islam is not the only religion which has been used as a pretext for violence , but when a teaching such as this is attributed to Muhammad (and considered to have been Allah's words transmitted through the prophet), what other explanation is there? This teaches that in Islamic theology, violent warfare is the way to eternal life.
I propose that a committee of non- Muslims meet to revise the Q'uran.
This modern Q'uran would delete all statements that are biased against other religions, correct permission to mistreat women , modernize dress codes for women, allow women to be educated and work, encourage peaceful co-existence with other faiths and countries.
Following the accomplishment of this task, they can then work on modernizing Sharia to be more modern and consistent fair minded concepts of justice.
Next, the modernized, New Revised Q'uran would be distributed at the Haj, and taught in all Madrasas.
I would like a group of people (preferably non- Muslims ) to get an English translation of Q'uran and re-write it. This would be published as the New Q'uran. The focus would be on removing references to violence and hatred toward other faiths, modernizing attitudes toward women , and living with people of other faiths.
Take the New Q'uran to Islamic countries and leave it places. Promote it in non-Islamic countries. Give it away.
It would sure piss-off a bunch of Ayatollahs and Imams.
Islam itself is probably not meant to be so radical, but that is the face it shows the world. I could not tolerate the anti-American and anti-Sematic rhetoric in 11 (yes, 11) mosques (deliberately uncapitalized for these 11 specifics) to learn enough to have an educated opinion on the religion itself. I've met a lot of people from many walks of life and each is quite unique; however, the seeming hunger or desire for blood seems to be most heavily an Islamic trait. Birds of a feather flock together goes an old saying and radicals come in droves to the islamic religion.
How can I say no? Well simply because of the fact that the religion in itself does NOT promote violence. BUT terrorists twist it to say that there actions are justified by religion. I myself am a Christian and a Proud American, but I'm not gonna make the religion of Islam my enemy but the people who twist the religion to justify their violent actions my enemy.
I have been living in America for my whole entire life and my family is from Pakistan. Being from Pakistan, following Islam, and looking middle eastern I get a lot of racist comments from the people here being called a terrorist all the time. The only reason for them doing this is what these people see from the media . "Terrorist attacks all over the world done by radical "Islamic" milatants." All these ignorant people just think, Islam = Terrorism. Have any of you even once tried to see what Islam is? Besides using sources such as the media who only give you a one sided story that focuses on all the bad things that the islamic terrorists and that all Muslims are bad. All of you people that say that the Quran promotes violence, have you even ever tried to read the Quran to see what it actually says? Have you ever tried to research what the scholars of Islam who have alot of Islamic knowledge say? I'm guessing that you have never done any of this. How about that for once all of you people who say that Islam promotes violence, go and see what Islam actually is, then come back and comment here.
I mean since now in this era, most of the terrorists are supposed "Muslims" that apparently means that all Muslims are bad. But since the Nazis were Christian or some other religion it doesnt matter because I just dont want Islam to be right. That is the ideology of an ignorant person. I also hate it when there is like a shooting or somthing and the guy who does it is white, so then after the incident they conclude that the guy had a mental problem. Like in that shooting incident somewhere in the southern states just this year and also that bombing in oklahoma. So since they were mental, it was okay and it isnt considered a crime . Now if a Muslim or middle eastern person were to do this the fisrt assumption would be.. AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! TERRORIST ATTACK!!!!!!!!!!
I mean talk about being racist and religious discrimination .
The problem is that the people that think Muslims are all violent get their opinion from the news. Having had friends that were Muslims I have found that they set an example that would put most Christians to shame.
Almost all religions promote violence. To single one out is absurd. Just read the bible and you will find tons of support for violence - especially against non believers.
This just presents a biased platform for people to vent their bigotry.
It is a misleading debate. That being said, I would argue that while there are some aspects of most religions that can be used to support violence, the vast body of most religions support peace. That being said, there are radical elements who use their religion to promote violence. (KKK, Taliban, AL Qaeda, Crusaders, Conquistadores, etc.) That being said, they are the exceptions, and not the rule.
Before reading your post, I would have argued that it is a valid debate, as to whether or not Islam primarily promotes violence or peace, as it does have much more advocacy of violence in its religious text than the other two Abrahamic religions. Now that I have seen your response, I can see that it is more a place to spout bigotry, and I am disgusted by yours.
I would more than welcome a document that quantifies the violence in each holy book so that we could then actually compare them and see which one is more violent.
Well, rather, they exist. They're called the Torah, the Bible, and the Koran. Read them. You'll see it. That being said, I don't think that Islam promotes violence, nor did I ever say that. You fail to realize that that was the least significant bit of my comment. The main part was pointing out that calling your opponents bigots because they disagree with you and deriding their religion as violent is bigotry. The other bit was about how religion is mostly a peaceful force. The fact that the Koran advocates slightly more extreme measures in the spreading of Islam than the Bible does Christianity (the Torah doesn't even advocate the spreading of Judaism) is ultimately irrelevant, because all three of them (and most other religions) are ultimately a force of peace, not violence.
Way to latch onto the least important part of the argument, though.
prove what you said and we'll discuss it. other than that you're just spouting off like the rest.
I said many things.
I think you have a good chance.
I'm not playing the fucking guessing game with you. If you think something I said bears proving, say so. Otherwise, quit playing games.
Once again falling back on name calling and general attack attitude: Keep showing us your true colors.
: )
When one goes to a website for intellectual stimulation and the exchange of ideas and is subjected to child's play, he has the right to get irritated.
and the points being made, you'll find it more stimulating and less frustrating. It would also be interesting to read your opinions and responses iif you weren't attacking people all the time.
I am trying to participate in the debate. Unfortunately, it is incredibly difficult to do when debating with someone who expects me to read his mind, play children's games, say what he wants me to say, and prove minor points that run counter to my argument. How about you actually try participating in the debate, and defend your claim that all religions are violent, instead of leading us off on some trail to nowhere. Stop playing games, stop turning this debate in circles, and start debating. The only reason to continue to evade me is that you are afraid to stand toe to toe.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
I came not to send peace, but a sword. .. A man's foes shall be they of his own household."
10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
What book is that from? I have found that when countering Biblical citations, the text giveth, the context generally taketh away. Granted, I usually use that when beating Christians at their own game, but I digress.
From Matthew
In addition to my previous objection to your citation, which you have as of yet left unanswered, what the text hath giveth, the context hath indeed taken away. If you read the rest of the chapter, you can see that they are the instructions that Jesus is giving to his followers regarding entering towns. The aforementioned threats of violence are basically Jesus telling them that if/when they get turned away, whipped, and scorned, not to try to retaliate, because Yahweh will do deliver violence on their behalf on judgement day. It's basically telling them to remain peaceful and let their god decide when violence should be used, and let him execute it. The whole chapter is enciting people to peace, though that brief quotation sounds violent.
But the fact that the violence will be carried out on another day doesn't change the fact that there is violence in the Bible. Of course what any of these religions tend to do is offer interpretations favorable to their book.
However, my real point has been, not whether one is more or less violent, but why this debate was framed just to focus on Islam. It should have been, do the 3 religions of Abraham promote violence. That would have been a fairer way of talking about this question.
That was a beautiful dodge of a good point. You roll right around the point that I already mentioned that there are examples of violence, but the overwhelming majority is peaceful. Please read, if you have not already, the post immediately prior to the "quick question" post.
Also, I believe the title of my original post that started this debate was "I agree, but fundamentally disagree," meaning that I agreed that the debate was poorly framed, but I disagreed with your argument against religion. I know what your original point was.
There are better quotes than this that you could have used, but this is a start. Did I not say that there is some level of violence in all religions? I never denied that such quotes existed, but rather mentioned them. I did however say that the overwhelming body of Christianity, in addition to Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. are devoted to peace. A few quotes is a start, but isn't going to win the debate. You're trying to make the case that all religion is violent with a few quotes from one religion's holy book. It's a good start, though. Keep up the good work.
From Leviticus
0:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
I'll get you something from the NT in a sec.
touchy aren't we. Here, I do have a heart: I'll repeat what I have written in clear terms for you to understand.
Prove that Islam is more violent than Christianity or Judaism. So far all I have seen from you and the other posters is opinion based on preconceptions. No one has taken the time to back up their arguments with any type of quantifiable data.
You don't seem to understand that while Islam may have slightly more violent aspects, it is ultimately a religion of peace, and I am arguing that overall, Islam does not promote violence. You're getting hung up on that minor point that is easily proven by a quick read of the Koran in comparison to the Bible and the Torah. That fact, which I recognize, runs counter to my overall point, which is that Islam in particular and religion in general is an overall peaceful phenomenon. While you may or may not have a heart (this has not been proven) what you lack is maturity. Do not play games with me, for I have not the patience to play them.
you still haven't backed up your thesis with anything. I tend not to believe things based on a little more than someone saying it is so. If you're right and it only takes a cursory glance comparing the 3 books, then why have you not substantiated your claim?
This appears to be a trend: try to bully someone to accept your claims which you don't provide the least bit of evidence to support.
Anyway, good luck trying to find evidence for claims.