People are awesome: Are Homeschooled Kids at a Disadvantage?

Each year more than a million children are homeschooled in the United States, and that number is steadily growing. While some parents believe homeschooling is an ideal situation, others fear that a student's education can be severely hindered in such an environment. When making a decision about your child's education, which is the more reasonable school of thought?

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I registered at this site to post this comment. Public schools in the UK are some of the best in the world for average, or below average children. It becomes the most tedious of routines to learn the same thing over and over, if you grasp new concepts easily. I was thirteen when i left mainstream schooling and haven't looked back since. I was moved up a year in school because of my abilities, and was ready to be moved again before I looked into home schooling. I am now 14, learning between Gcse level all the way to masters degree level depending on the subjects. Since leaving school I have become near fluent in french, done mock GCSE exams, which were all A* and my IQ was tested by mensa to be at 153. I have started up a computer repair workshop, which i make all the funds i need from, and more. The best part is not having to learn subjects that don't interest you. Why learn Religious Education if you are an atheist looking into a career in science or computer science? Why learn subjects from lazy teachers who only care if you hand your homework in on time, not if its correct. If you have access to the resources (all on the internet ) then why not try it?

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Homeschooling is a horrible excuse for a child ’s education . With average parents who often hold little higher then a high school diploma while working a full time job , there can be no instruction or social interaction. Parents who pull their children from school to teach them themselves are hypocrites. No parent can spend the time necessary in order to ensure the child fully understands the material and maintain a steady lifestyle.

I quote from a previous post on in this discussion, "They may miss out on the 'school of hard knocks' lessons we all endured growing up. I don't know that I'm better off now because of those lessons. Given a choice, I certainly would have skipped a lot of them."

Let me tell you something.. the world is elite, and if you are okay with settling for skipping lessons then you have no right to teach your child. The child will not understand the material, and his/her education will suffer more then it ever did it a public school.

Of course, mommy and daddy's intuition is always better then that of a certified teacher..

Home schooling is little more than enforced indoctrination of kids with fundamentalist, right-wing social policy. Every home schooler I`ve encountered certain seems to fit that bill . Yes, your kids will know lots and lots about the Bible, but will they have the tools to become a doctor , lawyer or engineer. I don`t think so. Also, homeschooling robs children of interacting and being a part of society and democracy . It pidgeonholes them into their own little world of creationism and literal interpretation of the Bible. Let kids learn about the Bible on Sunday at church , and let society teach them at school .

Home schooling is little more than the indoctrination of children in fundamentalist policies, such as anti- feminism or homophobic and racist Bible study. A child can learn much more in a structured school with professional teachers then he or she can at home from a parent who, 9 chances out of 10, holds extremist views. Not only that, but the child is deprived of all the normal, healthy experiences that school offers. Also, there are not many, if there are any, engineers or doctors who were homeschooled, but I`ve met a lot of fundamentalist preachers who were home schooled.

They don't get the Highschool Experience. Good or bad it teaches lessons about society work ethics and the no special treatment view of most of society.
In highschool I was offered AP, IP and Concurrent enrolement for higher learning before college so there you go on that.
Public schools allow you to try and "find yourself" before you are let out into the big mean world.
Homeschoolers get pampered in comparison. Manipulation and brainwashing is more direct also.

WE homeschooled,College test scores are higher for homeschoolers.You are right about the highschool experience good or bad.Most of the homeschoolers I know are off to college before most highschools finish there schooling.
Sooner or later the childern will go there way.At 18 some of my childern went wild the only thing I can think of they grow up to sheltered and fast.

Part of the educational process is learning how to deal with other people. Bullies, friends, members of the other sex, difficult teachers etc..

You won't learn that at home. Children who do not need to be pampered can excel even in a bad school.

So, you're saying kids need to go to school to get toughened up? I don't think so, and I would not subject my kids (all 6 of them!!) to that. Maybe that's part of the problem with schools?? They have friends, some the opposite sex, and interact with numerous adults all the time.

I think homeschooled kids have extreme advantages to their mass-schooled counterparts that are too numerous to list right now.

It's not about what you think about someone elses kid - for god's sake your neighbors kid isn't yours so you have no right to think you know better than the parents on what to do with the kid. It's about freedom.. if parents want to homeschool kids, let em. If they suck at it, the kid ends up with a french fry job. If they do well.the kid goes to college, opens a business, or may even still end up at a burger joint. You see, in public education the parents are out of the loop - infact the parents are often left defending the right to have control over their kid. Teacher for the most part are only good at delivering the curriculum.that's it. That's their job. It is the State and the Feds that determine what is taught. And who decides for the Fed? A bunch of political pundits who have phd and think they know better with their qualitative quasi research. Now, the only disadvantage a Kid can have in ANY schooled situation is a Parent that does not value their kid enough to choose what is best for the kid. Frankly give me a parent who cares and 95% of the time you'll have a kid who is successful in any schooled situation.

Marcus Buckingham shared a story about a question that was asked all over the world. Here it is" If you are to achieve Great success in your life, will it come by focusing on your strengths or improving your weaknesses". People from different countries around the world were asked this question and every person in every country said that success would come by improving their weaknesses. Some countries-Japan-74% said improving their weaknesses would increase their chances of success.

Buckingham said "No one in the world is hired according to their weaknesses" Spend time on your strengths, understand your strengths.

We use: Strengths Explorer For Ages 10 to 14

http://www.amazon.com/StrengthsExplorer-Ages-10-14-StrengthsFinder/dp/1595620184/ref =sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227137894&sr=8-1

It is a great help to learn more about your child and especially for your child to recognize their strengths.

Doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with teaching the old-school way. Just mix it up with a few internet options and it seems like all the benefits of public school are still there.

I never thought we'd homeschool, but here we are in our third year and enjoying it tremendously. Our children get more positive attention than any school can provide (hard to beat a 2:1 student:teacher ratio?), and while we keep them up to speed or ahead of state standards we also follow our children's interests and explore countless additional subjects not often provided by public schools these days. What better way to learn geography than to SEE the country? What better way to learn history than to visit the locations, take part in reenactments, see, hear, touch and feel it? We find life lessons provide great learning experiences. As for social skills, there's a lot more to socialization than surviving in a group of peers your age, of similar backgrounds and histories. By living IN the world and learning IN the world, homeschooled children who are given the exposure to real life are by far ahead of their peers in brick-and-mortar settings.

Educations should be tailored as much as possible to the individual. For those that can take on the task, and do so responsibly, only home/un/deschooling offers that advantage.

"As to the benefits of homeschooling over time I am not sure that home schooled children enter society prepared for full participation in our democracy warts and all. "

Good thing the founding fathers who set up this government were not homeschooled, wait, they were.
Look up most of the important people that helped start this country and what schools they went to.

As an advocate for high quality pre-k I believe that for the majority of americans public schools are the best option. However, if families have the financial means to teach their child at home, especially in the early years, they should seriously consider enjoying that time in their children's lives with them every day. As to the benefits of homeschooling over time I am not sure that home schooled children enter society prepared for full participation in our democracy warts and all.

Yes, IF the one-on-one attentions they receive in homeschooling attend to their needs in greater quality and quantity than the watered-down attentions they receive in schools. But let's be clear - neither homeschooling nor public and private schools have a monopoly on good education. There are no cookie-cutter solutions applicable to every individual child. It is high time that education - regardless of who is doing the teaching - be tailored to each and every child in recognition of their individual abilities, talents, skills, interests, etc. In the name of efficiency and control, I doubt very seriously any student today is receiving the precise guidance and caretaking they deserve to attain their best possible individual unique potential. Some students are held back by the slow pace of organized education, others are made to feel deficient because of the pace or approach untailored to them specifically. Of course, there is a limit to the customized education large schools can provide. Nevertheless, each and every child deserves no less. To fall back on excuses why this or that cannot be managed is to injure the child's chances. It is tantamount to lack of care and potentially abusive. It is high time we cease with our excuses why this or that student cannot receive what they must. Homeschooling at least has the advantage of affording each child more individualized time. Sadly, not all parents are up to the task. That fact is not argument against tailored education. It is argument for greater assistance to parents and children who wish to try. For years, I've thought it's some kind of miracle an educated human being manages to emerge from our less-than-ideal education system. Perhaps our insistence on a "system" is at the root of the problem. Children aren't cogs nor ought they be trained to become cogs. It clearly makes sense, if one wishes to maximize the potential of a population, one must do all that is necessary to maximize the potential of each and every individual FIRST. Senior generations throughtout much of our history have grossly failed in that task.

If one wants cookie-cutter people, one is likely to get what one asks for. We could afford quite a few more healthy adults who have developed outside of the usual very poor quality and spirit-killing indoctrinations of our "system".

We home school our children and each one of them has an education plan based on their specific needs. That plan is formulated by the test they take when they begin school. The people we get our curriculum from then takes those tests and along with the parents, decides what that plan will be. I have a 1st grader who excells in every thing but numbers, so his curriculum is centered around majoring on those things he needs most help with. His little brother is a Kidergardener. His curriculum is centered around his ability in all subjects. He started Kindergarden in August and will be beginning 1st grade in January. What does that mean? I means they are getting the education they deserve tailored to them specifically. I do not personally believe in the ability of our public school system here. The teachers do not care about the students they way they should. They will pass students on to the next grade even if they should not be.

"They will pass students on to the next grade even if they should not be."

This isn't true at my wife's school, and it's very complicated. Usually the teacher recommends that a kid be held back and the parents refuse. Sometimes the administration refuses, but usually it's the parents.

My wife has twice tried to have a kid evaluated for learning disabilities and both times the parents fought tooth and nail to prevent it.

I know not all public school systems are the same. If we were else where, we might not have made the same choice about home schooling that we made here.
However, there is a family in our church that has a child that is very slow in many subjects. Yet, the school here will not hold here back because they don't want her to miss out on what the others her age are doing. They have told the parents that they should hire tutors to help her. This is a very low income family who cannot afford that. They have to rely on the Public school because they cannot afford any thing else and the public school is failing them.

It's incredibly destructive to a developing mind to be thrust into a system involuntarily which is designed to focus in and punish your weaknesses and then expect better performance out of you. If there are elements to the educational system which will even inadvertently demoralize the student, it is the system which needs changing - not the student. It's appalling to ignore the fact that no two individuals are created equal in talents or abilities and neither can any two people attain equal experience and skill. We must move away from a culture that underappreciates some and overappreciates others. By this, I do not mean any of us are equal, however, all of us have our value and it is that very individual and unique that ought to be nurtured, respected and preserved. Most significantly, we must end these time when our children are demoralized for the very uniqueness which gives them value in the first place.

I home-educated my children through their entire school years, in spite of the many, many moves we made throughout those years. My daughter is now teaching part-time and caring for my parents (my Dad is 95 and my Mom has M.S.) and my son is a Jr. in University in Civil Engineering. Einstein said that one should not memorize anything they can look up, so my main basis in our home-education was to create interest in everything around them and give them the skills to research. We worked with foresters along the Alaska Highway to colleges and camps to helping the police teach Character training in inner-city public schools. A real plus to home-education is the interaction with all ages of people vs. a 'not-so-positive' peer dependency. Older people throughout these years had such a positive influence on my children. I will never regret these years spent with my children. They are my best friends and continuing to be good, healthy neighbors and citizens.

I was home-schooled until 8th grade, at which point I switched to a private school. I was successful academically, graduating high school a year early and graduating from a UC school in computer science magna cum laude.

On the flip side, my brother - also home schooled - didn't graduate high school (though he eventually passed some equivalency test).

This is all anecdotal, but my personal experience is that success in home schooling depends mostly on the students desire to learn and the parents desire to teach - not on the parent's teaching skills. My mom and dad both suck at math, but I was able to excel in it and I learned how to read technical books on my own (i.e. math books) at an early age. The reason I say that parent teaching skill isn't too impoprtant is because, in my experience anyway, most learning was done on my own, not with my mom sitting next to me.

That said, I'm sending my kids to public school, because we live in a relatively good school district and homeschooling is more work for us.

I'd also like to point out that the experts saying home schoolers are disadvantaged are all members of one of the most powerful unions in the United States whose financial security and power as a union depend on students going to public schools. You'd be naive to expect an unbiased argument from that group - even though they are made up of education professionals.

"This is all anecdotal, but my personal experience is that success in home schooling depends mostly on the students desire to learn and the parents desire to teach - not on the parent's teaching skills."

how odd.. that a student's success in a public school depends almost entirely on the same thing

There are many factors that are attributable to student achievement within any school setting. These factors have been documented through psychological and economic studies.

Factors such as home effects, peer effects, students, teachers, principals all aggregate to give a probability of success. A variance, either high or low, on any one of these items will have an effect on the students learning. When you place all but one of these factors in control, you can then see how each factor affects student success.

As home educators we are controlling more narrowly the same factors that schools are working to control. With greater attention on these controls, we can provide a better environment for learning and a higher probability of student success.

For a good study of these factors see Urban Economics, Arthur O'Sullivan, 5th (2002) ISBN:0072487844.

I agree with your factors having an effect. The question is how large an effect? Research repeatedly shows that the greatest effect comes from socio-economics. Principals, class size, teacher education, etc. all play a much smaller role than the socio-economic background. In other words.. a kid from wealthy, involved parents, will generally perform better in a bad school than a kid from poor, neglectful parents, in a good school.

Exactly! All of these factors do play a role. However, some play a stronger role than others. Research within the United States shows that the strongest factors are "Peer Effects" and "Home Effects".

Peer Effects are the effects on a child's perception, development, and emotional growth that occur as a result of interaction with their peers (other children). A child will take on similar characteristics as the children around him; be that positive or negative.

Home Effects behave similar to Peer Effects, but these factors come from the child's home experience. Researchers consider many factors when determining Home Effects; parents educational level, income levels, whether parents provide books, computers, etc.

The other factors play less of a role in the development and achievement of a child, but they still skew the probabilities. What most homeschool parents are trying to achieve is to produce an environment where all of these factors lessen the probability of a weak education.

"Peer Effects" and "Home Effects" should not be confused with socialization and socializing, which are two different aspects of child development and achievement which occupy a different sphere but overlaps with these factors.

The question is "Are Homeschooled Kids at a Disadvantage?". That success at both home schooling and public schooling depend on similar things does not argue in favor of either side but rather shows either choice could work, depending on your situation.

Though I disagree - public schooling depends more on other factors than homeschooling does. In public schools teachers have to deal with a lot of kids, and it only takes a one or two kids to cause distractions for the entire class. Public school teachers have to take time away from the class to deal with these kids - no matter how much the other kids may want to learn.

in good public schools in which the community supports fair education for all students

those kids there for the wrong reasons are encouraged to go elsewhere

and yes I know what the question was

I am uncommitted and my original comment illustrates why. Students with strong parental support, higher socioeconimc conditions, and strong family and community ties invariably do better in school whether it's at home or at public school.

See Marzano: Building Background Knowledge For Academic Achievement: Research On What Works In Schools

for all the research data you want on the issue

Schools parcel out, explain, put in context, and test knowledge. They don't invent it. Knowledge on a subject can be acquired in any number of ways to include books, the internet, informal tutoring, OJT, experience, to name a few. It makes sense with limited resources to teach most children in a mass sort of way. But to claim schools have a monopoly on learning is ignorant. If anything, home schoolers quickly learn that knowledge is available to anyone with a desire to learn and access to resources. While the schooled child may erroneously come to think schools are the only source of knowledge, as many people against homeschooling seem to think.

The reasons I took my kids out of school are not the reasons I am still homeschooling. It was going to be a one year "fix" until we moved. We are now on our third year. I can say I don't see them going back to "Public" school. Each of them are at different levels and would be lost or bord at school. I don't what that to happen. One is two grade above grade level and another that is 1 grade below and then one that is on grade level. I also like that I can pick their books that work for them. That means I need to learn how to teach more than one way. but it is worth it.

I think the teachers are getting upset because they see how well these homeschool kids are doing on their tests. It may be making the "Public" schools look bad.

We also took our daughter out of a private school where she was bullied and called names everyday. Our daughter takes hard subjects. We are homeschooling and she in middle school taking Algebra 1,Literture/composition, world history, and Physical science. Our daughter is learning and we have school everyday. Our daughter is happy and enjoys meeting new friends all the time

how are homeschooled kids taught the more advanced subjects like calculus or physics?

I dropped out of high school in the 10th grade because of the substandard education and the threat of violence. I began to educate myself through self study. I have self taught myself many advanced science and math courses. I am now about to complete my doctorate.

My children are homeschooled. They learn advanced courses from me as well as professionals in certain fields.

I do not believe that calculus and physics are advanced courses. they are essential courses. These are principles and theory that are taught right now to my primary school children.

Physics, along with many other "advanced" subjects are involved in everyday discussion in our house.

Do you truly believe that only 'school teachers' have the corner on these subjects? Maybe you should do a bit more research.

your implications sound stronger than it really would be if you said your point directly. I do not believe that "only" teachers know those subjects. I'm sure I could teach it since I took a lot of math and science in college, but people with such a background are a small fraction of society and I'm guessing homeschool parents have the same proportions.

I've been reseaching homeschooling in all it's forms for over four years now. I have found an extremely large percentage of the parents are college grads. There are some parents who are only high school grads but even those parents are working hard to learn the subjects right along with their child or finding them mentors.

Recently, there has even been a large amount of men blogging about being the homeschooling dad! Many of those men giving up jobs as school teachers so they could stay home and teach their children while their spouse goes out and earns the income.

Also, please note, may parents of Mensa and gifted children choose homeschooling so their children can learn at their own pace. Me being one of them. My son was reading above an eighth grade level at six and
at age ten, he is working in advanced Algebra and Biology. We tried public gifted classes and private schools. They all refused to let him go at his pace. Now we homeschool, actually, we unschool meaning he has the freedom to learn. My son also knows that if at any time he wishes to return to school, he can. He is also allowed to try it decide against it, and return home. His choice.

For the sake of argument, I'll add that my oldest child finished college at eighteen and is now working in her chosen field.

Do some research and you will find very smart people homeschooling their kids.

Nuf said.

I'm sure there are kids who are served well from homeschooling, but that anecdote isn't going to convince me of the value generally. I knew a girl who was homeschool most of her life and her mother then convinced her to join the military. I'll simply say that she wasn't prepared for the world.

We can trade anecdotes, but we both me they don't really mean anything.

But this is just one example; an anecdote to an anecdote.

A career in the military is an excellent career option. Many of those who join the military are highly educated. See http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm

http://homeschoolinformation.com/homeschooling/homeschool_statistics1.htm

i'd have to see statistics that compared homeschooled kids with public shooled kids whose parents are equally active before I draw any conclusions.

I'm not trying to convince you. Not my place.

Second. If the system worked for everyone, there would be fewer homeschoolers then there are. Every year, all year long, there are very sad parents signing on to the homeschool groups to learn more. They tell such heart wrenching tales of the sorrows their children are suffering at school and they see no other choice but to withdraw their children and learn about homeschool. I was one of them a few years back.

Third. You say I gave you a selective sampling. You gave me one. My sampling is taken from an extremely large networking system of homeschoolers all over the world. Yes, I have done extensive research.

There will always be 'bad' parents and they exist in every group. I could list many, many, bad parents that I've seen in my life. I've found far fewer in the homeschooling community.

I can speak only for my own children but with that caveat - Yes my children will be exposed to "advanced" subjects like calculus and physics. If you want the specifics my husband will handle the calculus as he's the numbers man by profession and I'll handle the physics because I'm the science nerd.

To be honest though this question irritates me but not for the reason you most likely would think. I get irritated because nothing and I repeat NOTHING that I learned in my high school years is so very complex that I cannot share that knowledge with my children. That isn't saying that what I learned was less than stellar. It was a good, solid mid-western education. But really the most advanced courses in high school are nothing compared to the course work at a college. Just because you are public schooled doesn't mean that you have an advantage of any sort. That still depends very much on location. Small, mid-western high school on the "college track" barely prepared me for the level of work demanded at my college of choice.

I agree with you. I too went to a small mid-western High School. It did little to prepare me for what was ahead of me in College. (I spent more than 13 years in Higher Education) I am thankful that the curriculum we have chosen for my Childrens Home School education will be preparing them for that as they reach high school. It has pre-college courses that they will have to take. They will even have the opportunity to enroll in college classes when they are seniors in High School.

I know some HS kids who are tutored (I went to public school and I was tutored in Physics--by one of my teachers) by others in the community, attend a college class or a night class offered by the school district or some kids don't either want to take classes like physics (i went into psychology for my BA, so physics was something i took for the Regents (NYS) diploma, not for my college degree) or don't need them for their career or college pursuits. Other kids/parents learn together, take an online class or read a physics text.

There are so many opportunities open to Homeschool kids just by virtue of their flexible schedule. Taking classes that mom or dad (or whomever does their homeschooling primarily) should never be a problem.